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</div></div> <section end="technews-2014-W16"/> 07:18, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
</div></div> <section end="technews-2014-W16"/> 07:18, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
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== Topic ban, pursuant to [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Sexology]] ==

Kosh, I'm unhappy to have to do this (both you you and to me, believe me), but six months away was obviously not enough. When your previous topic ban from trans-related issues expired on April 8, you waited a mere three days before returning to the topic at [[Talk:Chelsea_Manning#Consensus_check|here]] and [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#MOS:ID_removal|here]], with posts like [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style&diff=604072220&oldid=604071593 "Bradley Manning is still a guy, biologically and legally, so he needs to be referred to (again, WP:V and WP:BLP and per Reliable sources) as Bradley Manning"] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chelsea_Manning&diff=prev&oldid=604063789 "there's no reliable resource that shows 'Chelsea Manning' exists in place of 'Bradley Manning'."]. Multiple editors on both pages have stated that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style&diff=604153571&oldid=604152654 they find] your behavior [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style&diff=604092000&oldid=604086067 disruptive], and they have [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style&diff=604075602&oldid=604075240 asked you] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chelsea_Manning&diff=604069698&oldid=604066725 repeatedly] to accept that you are misunderstanding policy and to stop, but you continue to insist that both [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style&diff=604149707&oldid=604144213 your interpretation of policy] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chelsea_Manning&diff=prev&oldid=604053789 your desire] to [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chelsea_Manning&diff=prev&oldid=603776507 re-hash trans-related issues] trumps others' consensus. In short, you are editing disruptively, apparently in pursuit of a personal POV about how BLP does and doesn't apply to trans people, and you are attempting to use editing the MOS to do an end-run around community consensus. These are all failures to [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions|"adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process".]]

While your statement that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chelsea_Manning&diff=prev&oldid=604071299 you will drop a discussion if three users in good standing ask you to] is noble, it, much like your 0RR restriction and your promise to never alter anyone else's comments - all noted at the top of your talk page - does not appear to be something that you're able to adhere to in practice ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style&diff=prev&oldid=603832863 0RR violation], [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style&diff=prev&oldid=604154221 editing another user's comment], [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#MOS:ID_removal|three days of discussion]] involving other users asking you to stop pushing for your preferred interpretation of policy before you finally [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style&diff=prev&oldid=604158660 agreed]). Your statement that you will "refrain from making any changes on the Bradley Manning article (or any article that references him ) voluntarily until June 1 2014 as a show of good faith" is similarly a good idea, but simply not adequate to address the issues your behavior is causing, especially given that most of the disruption is happening on talk pages, not in articles. Your self-restrictions are all good efforts, and I commend you for trying to work with the community to resolve your issues, but the level of disruption being caused by your behavior is simply too high to be handled with restrictions you may or may not follow at some point, if you remember. Therefore, I see no alternative but to issue you a '''permanent topic ban from all articles and discussions related to transgender issues, broadly construed.'''

To be clear, since I know you dispute that sexology discretionary sanctions apply to the MOS: your immediate return to tendentious behavior on [[Talk:Chelsea_Manning]] this week was enough, in and of itself, to trigger a new topic ban; your behavior on [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style]] has simply made it even more clear that this is a topic area which you will disruptively pursue beyond the borders of article space, and thus that your topic ban must apply there as well.

As you know, appeals of discretionary sanctions may be made to [[WP:Arbcom|Arbcom]] or to the community at [[WP:AN]] (per [[Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Reversal_of_enforcement_actions|policy]], appeal is not to [[WP:AE]], which is where your last topic ban was appealed to). [[User:Fluffernutter|A fluffernutter is a sandwich!]] ([[User talk:Fluffernutter|talk]]) 14:17, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:17, 14 April 2014





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Reply from the Cap'n

Hello, KoshVorlon. You have new messages at Captain Screebo's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time�by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Talkback


Hello, KoshVorlon. You have new messages at Skamecrazy123's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time�by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

From your user page

Considering that my edit spoke of the fact that Tullian has publicly debated other with regards to his views, and the links I referenced go DIRECTLY to those debates, there should not be an issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BaptistBolt (talkcontribs) 18:51, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Ban policy - reverted your BOLD change

Hi; I think that your BOLDly proposed change, while supported (I think) by a lot of the community, is a step further than any existing consensus that may be out there. There has been significant support for proxy editing with those restrictions, under limited circumstances. I reverted your change to the policy. That said, it's entirely possible that a new consensus can be gathered to change the wording and allowed behavior, and I invite you to start a consensus discussion for the policy change on the appropriate venue(s). I will certainly respect any such consensus for a change. Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 23:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

07:14, 17 March 2014 (UTC) 18:56, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Proxy example

The best case example of the proxy I have seen is along these lines: You are banned from LGBT. You have a little watched LGBT BLP on your watch list. You see a BLP violation that is clear, unambiguous, and vile. You contact an admin to say "Hey, this may need to be taken care of". That section prevents someone who has a battleground attitude with you from turning both you and the admin in for a ban violation and proxying for a banned user. I can't post this to the talk page due it being semi-protected but that clause is there for a reason. Its to prevent the petty battleground crap from flying between wikilawyers. Others abusing it is just like any other policy on the site, it happens. 129.9.104.10 (talk) 17:51, 25 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for posting that. I had an account long ago (5 years I think...) and became disillusioned with editing because of all the drama. It shouldn't be this hard to collect knowledge in a civil manner. I poke in occasionally to read articles, fix a typo here and there, and see what drama has been cooked up. And in the above paragraph, prevent should be taken to mean "avoid". No policy prevents anything as ANI clearly indicates over 800+ archive pages). 129.9.104.12 (talk) 14:00, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
09:20, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

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08:00, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

April 2014

I see that your topic ban in this area expired on Tuesday. You then removed a section from the MOS, a section that had consensus, and then you violated your voluntary restriction of 0RR. Do not change the MoS language around gender without a new discussion reaching consensus to do so. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:22, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you really don't understand just how bigoted and offensive you come across with this comment. If you really don't consider yourself to be transphobic, or at least don't want others to consider you as such, then I would urge you to remove that comment immediately. As to why the comment is offensive, perhaps you could ask some of your many trans acquaintances at the community centre to explain this to you. (I'm not trying to be snarky here; I just think that if the explanation comes from people you know personally, there's a better chance you'll take it to heart.) —Psychonaut (talk) 19:16, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

07:18, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Kosh, I'm unhappy to have to do this (both you you and to me, believe me), but six months away was obviously not enough. When your previous topic ban from trans-related issues expired on April 8, you waited a mere three days before returning to the topic at here and here, with posts like "Bradley Manning is still a guy, biologically and legally, so he needs to be referred to (again, WP:V and WP:BLP and per Reliable sources) as Bradley Manning" and "there's no reliable resource that shows 'Chelsea Manning' exists in place of 'Bradley Manning'.". Multiple editors on both pages have stated that they find your behavior disruptive, and they have asked you repeatedly to accept that you are misunderstanding policy and to stop, but you continue to insist that both your interpretation of policy and your desire to re-hash trans-related issues trumps others' consensus. In short, you are editing disruptively, apparently in pursuit of a personal POV about how BLP does and doesn't apply to trans people, and you are attempting to use editing the MOS to do an end-run around community consensus. These are all failures to "adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process".

While your statement that you will drop a discussion if three users in good standing ask you to is noble, it, much like your 0RR restriction and your promise to never alter anyone else's comments - all noted at the top of your talk page - does not appear to be something that you're able to adhere to in practice (0RR violation, editing another user's comment, three days of discussion involving other users asking you to stop pushing for your preferred interpretation of policy before you finally agreed). Your statement that you will "refrain from making any changes on the Bradley Manning article (or any article that references him ) voluntarily until June 1 2014 as a show of good faith" is similarly a good idea, but simply not adequate to address the issues your behavior is causing, especially given that most of the disruption is happening on talk pages, not in articles. Your self-restrictions are all good efforts, and I commend you for trying to work with the community to resolve your issues, but the level of disruption being caused by your behavior is simply too high to be handled with restrictions you may or may not follow at some point, if you remember. Therefore, I see no alternative but to issue you a permanent topic ban from all articles and discussions related to transgender issues, broadly construed.

To be clear, since I know you dispute that sexology discretionary sanctions apply to the MOS: your immediate return to tendentious behavior on Talk:Chelsea_Manning this week was enough, in and of itself, to trigger a new topic ban; your behavior on Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style has simply made it even more clear that this is a topic area which you will disruptively pursue beyond the borders of article space, and thus that your topic ban must apply there as well.

As you know, appeals of discretionary sanctions may be made to Arbcom or to the community at WP:AN (per policy, appeal is not to WP:AE, which is where your last topic ban was appealed to). A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 14:17, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]