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Relisting "Category:Philately of Mandatory Palestine" (XFDcloser)
Relisting "Category:Fictional black people" (XFDcloser)
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==== NEW NOMINATIONS ====
==== NEW NOMINATIONS ====
<!-- Please add the newest nominations below this line -->
<!-- Please add the newest nominations below this line -->
==== Category:Fictional black people ====
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Fictional black people}}
:'''Nominator's rationale:''' '''delete''', we do not usually categorize people by skin color, per [[WP:ETHNICRACECAT]], so we shouldn't do that for fictional characters either. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:35, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
::'''Delete''' per nom. The [[:Category:Fictional black people by medium]] and its immediate descendants should have been bundled with this one. –[[User:LaundryPizza03|<b style="color:#77b">Laundry</b><b style="color:#fb0">Pizza</b><b style="color:#b00">03</b>]] ([[User talk:LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0d0">d</span>]][[Special:Contribs/LaundryPizza03|<span style="color:#0bf">c̄</span>]]) 22:09, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
:::'''Support in principle,''' but most of these characters are people of african ancestry, which is defining. So I think we should '''rename''' and purge the categories. [[User:Smasongarrison|Mason]] ([[User talk:Smasongarrison|talk]]) 23:29, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
* Per above comment, see below. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 22:23, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Fictional black people by medium}}
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Black characters in animation}}
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Black people in comics}}
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Black characters in films}}
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Black people in television}}
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Black characters in video games}}
:* '''Propose deleting''' {{lc|Video games featuring black protagonists}}
::'''Delete''' all these categories per Marco. Especially because I don't think we categorize individual real-life people as being "black", nor are there any counterpart categories for fictional brown people or white people either. Plus, this category also lumps together people of black African descent along with unrelated indigenous Australians and Papuans. [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 01:48, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Another possible proposal: '''rename''' this category to something along the lines of "[[:Category:Fictional people of African descent]]", and remove the subcategories for Australian and Papuan characters from it. [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 01:54, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
:::I would also support '''renaming''' to "people of African descent" (as an alternative to my Keep vote below), as most of the objections to the categories here hinge specifically on the wording "black people". [[User:Phediuk|Phediuk]] ([[User talk:Phediuk|talk]]) 12:49, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
:: '''Keep'''. Whether or not this is a way that Wikipedia categorizes real people is not my concern here; I am focused solely on whether the topic of ''fictional'' black characters receives persistent, dedicated coverage from RSes, which is the foremost basis of any category's validity. Looking at just one subset of these categories, black video game characters, the answer is yes, and therefore, the categories should stay. Here are some examples from the first couple of pages of a Google search. I include only those articles that explicitly refer to black people or blackness in their titles:
::* ''[[Wired (magazine)|Wired]]'' (2021): [https://www.wired.com/story/black-character-history-video-games/ Coding Blackness: A History of Black Video Game Characters]
::* ''[[Allure (magazine)|Allure]]'' (2023): [https://www.allure.com/story/black-video-game-designers-producers-actors Black Video Game Characters Are Finally Starting to Accurately Represent the Culture]
::* ''[[The New York Times]]'' (2022): [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/17/crosswords/video-games-black-characters.html Behind the Movement to Create More Black Video Game Characters]
::* ''[[Bloomberg]]'' (2021): [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-09-17/video-games-are-slowly-opening-up-to-more-black-characters Video Games Are Slowly Opening Up to More Black Characters]
::* ''[[Yahoo! News]]'' (2022): [https://news.yahoo.com/national-video-game-day-5-110000297.html National Video Game Day: 5 Of Our Favorite Black Characters]
::* ''[[Complex (magazine)|Complex]]'' (2012): [https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/a/larry-hester/the-10-best-black-characters-in-video-games The 10 Best Black Characters In Video Games]
::* ''[[Vice (magazine)|Vice]]'' (2016): [https://www.vice.com/en/article/78kv5x/black-video-game-characters-are-still-often-voiced-by-white-actors-uncharted-4-nadine-ross Black Video Game Characters Are Still Often Voiced by White Actors]
::* ''[[WhatCulture]]'' (2020): [https://whatculture.com/gaming/10-greatest-black-characters-in-video-games 10 Greatest Black Characters In Video Games]
::* ''[[Eurogamer]]'' (2018): [https://www.eurogamer.net/the-state-of-blackness-in-games The state of blackness in games]
::* ''[[GamesRadar]]'' (2020): [https://www.gamesradar.com/we-need-to-see-black-female-characters-promoted-from-supporting-characters-to-starring-protagonists-in-video-games/ We need to see black female characters promoted from supporting characters to starring protagonists in video games]

::The scholarly literature also turns up a spate of articles on portrayals of black people in video games. These are all from the first couple of pages of a Google Scholar search, and, again, I limited this selection solely to those articles that explicitly used the word "black" in a racial context in their titles:
::* ''Sociation'' (2023): [https://sociation.ncsociologyassoc.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/gamifyingblackness_proof-1-1.pdf Gamifying Blackness: A Discussion on Black Gamers and Black Portrayals in Contemporary Videogames]
::* ''Simulation & Gaming'' (2013): [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1046878112449958 Influence of Black Masculinity Game Exemplars on Social Judgments]
::* ''Velvet Light Trap'' (2018): [https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA532022898&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=01491830&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7E79064bdd&aty=open-web-entry Power in the Visual: Examining Narratives of Controlling Black Bodies in Contemporary Gaming]
::* ''Intelligent Agent'' (2004): [http://www.intelligentagent.com/archive/Vol4_No4_gaming_leonard.htm High Tech Blackface -- Race, Sports Video Games and Becoming the Other]
::* ''Review of Education, Pedagogy, and Cultural Studies'' (2006): [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/10714410600552902 White Thumbs, Black Bodies: Race, Violence, and Neoliberal Fantasies in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas]
::* ''Humanities'' (2020): [https://www.mdpi.com/2076-0787/9/4/145 Black Egyptians and White Greeks?: Historical Speculation and Racecraft in the Video Game Assassin’s Creed: Origins]
::* ''Interactions'' (2023): [https://dl.acm.org/doi/abs/10.1145/3610968 Designing Black Children in Video Games]
::Since black people in video games is a persistent topic of dedicated coverage from reliable sources, both mainstream and scholarly, a category is appropriate. [[User:Phediuk|Phediuk]] ([[User talk:Phediuk|talk]]) 16:03, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' this and all subcategories per [[WP:ETHNICRACECAT]]. [[User:Doczilla|<span style="color:green;font-weight:bold;font-size:medium;font-family: Monotype Corsiva;">Doczilla</span>]] <sub>[[User talk:Doczilla|<small>''Ohhhhhh, no!''</small>]]</sub> 07:39, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
::'''Reply'''. If the sole objection to the category is the use of "black" rather than "African descent", then the categories can simply be renamed and any irrelevant examples purged. Per [[WP:ETHNICRACECAT]], "Ethnic groups are commonly used when categorizing people; however, race is not. Ethnic groups may be used as categorizations, even if race is a stereotypical characteristic of the ethnic group, e.g. with African-Americans or Anglo-Indians." The vast majority of the entries in all of these categories refer to people of African descent, so they can easily be adjusted to conform to Wikipedia's guidelines. [[User:Phediuk|Phediuk]] ([[User talk:Phediuk|talk]]) 14:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 10:47, 22 December 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>
::'''Rename''' this category to [[:Category:Fictional people of African descent]], then remove any subcategories or pages that are not about characters with African ancestry (such as indigenous Australian or Papuan people). [[User:AHI-3000|AHI-3000]] ([[User talk:AHI-3000|talk]]) 06:30, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
:<p class="xfd_relist" style="margin:0 0 0 -1em;border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 2em;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#1d9ffc; color:white; padding:5px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">Qwerfjkl</span>]][[User talk:Qwerfjkl|<span style="background:#79c0f2;color:white; padding:2px; box-shadow:darkgray 2px 2px 2px;">talk</span>]] 16:04, 30 December 2023 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:XfD relist --></p>

==== Category:Philately of Mandatory Palestine ====
==== Category:Philately of Mandatory Palestine ====
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Philately of Mandatory Palestine]] to [[:Category:Philately of Palestine]]
:* '''Propose merging''' [[:Category:Philately of Mandatory Palestine]] to [[:Category:Philately of Palestine]]

Revision as of 16:04, 30 December 2023

< December 29
December 31 >

December 30

NEW NOMINATIONS

Category:Fictional black people

Nominator's rationale: delete, we do not usually categorize people by skin color, per WP:ETHNICRACECAT, so we shouldn't do that for fictional characters either. Marcocapelle (talk) 21:35, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. The Category:Fictional black people by medium and its immediate descendants should have been bundled with this one. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 22:09, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, but most of these characters are people of african ancestry, which is defining. So I think we should rename and purge the categories. Mason (talk) 23:29, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all these categories per Marco. Especially because I don't think we categorize individual real-life people as being "black", nor are there any counterpart categories for fictional brown people or white people either. Plus, this category also lumps together people of black African descent along with unrelated indigenous Australians and Papuans. AHI-3000 (talk) 01:48, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Another possible proposal: rename this category to something along the lines of "Category:Fictional people of African descent", and remove the subcategories for Australian and Papuan characters from it. AHI-3000 (talk) 01:54, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would also support renaming to "people of African descent" (as an alternative to my Keep vote below), as most of the objections to the categories here hinge specifically on the wording "black people". Phediuk (talk) 12:49, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Whether or not this is a way that Wikipedia categorizes real people is not my concern here; I am focused solely on whether the topic of fictional black characters receives persistent, dedicated coverage from RSes, which is the foremost basis of any category's validity. Looking at just one subset of these categories, black video game characters, the answer is yes, and therefore, the categories should stay. Here are some examples from the first couple of pages of a Google search. I include only those articles that explicitly refer to black people or blackness in their titles:
The scholarly literature also turns up a spate of articles on portrayals of black people in video games. These are all from the first couple of pages of a Google Scholar search, and, again, I limited this selection solely to those articles that explicitly used the word "black" in a racial context in their titles:
Since black people in video games is a persistent topic of dedicated coverage from reliable sources, both mainstream and scholarly, a category is appropriate. Phediuk (talk) 16:03, 15 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reply. If the sole objection to the category is the use of "black" rather than "African descent", then the categories can simply be renamed and any irrelevant examples purged. Per WP:ETHNICRACECAT, "Ethnic groups are commonly used when categorizing people; however, race is not. Ethnic groups may be used as categorizations, even if race is a stereotypical characteristic of the ethnic group, e.g. with African-Americans or Anglo-Indians." The vast majority of the entries in all of these categories refer to people of African descent, so they can easily be adjusted to conform to Wikipedia's guidelines. Phediuk (talk) 14:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 10:47, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rename this category to Category:Fictional people of African descent, then remove any subcategories or pages that are not about characters with African ancestry (such as indigenous Australian or Papuan people). AHI-3000 (talk) 06:30, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:04, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Philately of Mandatory Palestine

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category Mason (talk) 02:43, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Further comment, I have nominated the target for speedy renaming to Category:Philately of Palestine (region) per C2C. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:27, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Renamed. Ymblanter (talk) 08:09, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 16:03, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Films where the director died during filming

Convert Category:Films where the director died during filming to article Films where the director died during filming
Convert Category:Films where the director was replaced during filming to article Films where the director was replaced during filming
Nominator's rationale: It could be an interesting list, but I don't think it's defining Mason (talk) 14:21, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and listify (respectively) per WP:OCTRIVIA. We already have List of films released posthumously for the deaths category, which also covers the actors category above. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 15:00, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Tht is an interesting list but it is very broad? Could we have a more limited one? Britfilm (talk) 15:39, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a more concise way to do it? I think it is interesting categorisation and would be useful. Britfilm (talk) 15:37, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Is there a more concise way to do it?" Concise way to do what? It may be interesting, but that doesn't mean the category is defining. Mason (talk) 19:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Listify or delete?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Soviet people

Nominator's rationale: Where possible, the categories of former nations are formatted as "People from the *state name*". Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:24, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I will start with the parent categories in Category:Soviet people and, if there is consensus to change, I will add the categories within each one by one. Otherwise, this Cfd will become too big. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:07, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is slightly clearer, and consistent with most of the parent Category:People by former country in Europe and Category:People by former country in Asia.  —Michael Z. 20:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This rename has some pretty big downstream implications; would that mean that the child categories would have to be renamed as well? Actors from the Soviet Union etc? Mason (talk) 14:29, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison, I believe so but I'm starting with the subcategories in Category:Soviet people. If there is a consensus then we can proceed with the rest. Omnis Scientia (talk) 14:35, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The current convention is in my understanding Fooian people for sovereign countries and People from Foo for country subdivisions. In this regard, foreign countries such as the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia etc. are indisputably sovereign states (and not e.g. colonies within an empire) although former ones, and have a clear unambiguous demonyn. I see no policy-based reason to treat them differently that present-day sovereign countries. Place Clichy (talk) 15:45, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    We have Category:People from the Russian Empire for some reason, and the same form is used for a double handful of other empires among almost 100 “former countries and states” in Category:People by former country in Europe. These were empires composed of a large number of countries, and not nation-states nor UN member states, if we’re considering the definition of “country.”  —Michael Z. 18:14, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    On the other hand, Category:Russian people is not for people from the sovereign state, but for people broadly Russian: “people born in Russia, of Russian descent, or who have a Russian background” and is in parent categories “by nationality,” and refers to the main article Russians about “an East Slavic ethnic group.”
    Since Soviet is not an ethnocultural group but describes people having any ethnicity from a specific state, it seems to be in a different class of categorization than this.
    I wish we could find a defining statement about these categories as a whole.  —Michael Z. 20:18, 23 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    In my understanding, ... from the Russian Empire was preferred to Imperial Russian because the latter is awkward and ambiguous with present-day Russia. Ottoman... was ambiguous with the Ottoman ruling family. None of this applies to Soviet. Place Clichy (talk) 22:53, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No, same problem. Soviet people could refer to Homo sovieticus, to people from Soviet Russia (before the Soviet Union existed), to people from other Soviet states and state-like entities, or even to people that belong to a soviet (council). But “from the Soviet Union” is unambiguous.  —Michael Z. 07:39, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The term American could refer to any person from the Americas but it already has a well-established meaning. Similarly the term Soviet has a well-established meaning. Mellk (talk) 12:40, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    American people are a well known national group. Soviet people are a historical group that don’t exist any more and the ideological concepts an extinct state. Not equivalent in terms of meaning and recognizability.  —Michael Z. 15:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    American identity is a geographical, political and national concept going back well over two centuries, and a defining quality of the Americans, regardless of the USA’s statehood. Soviet “nationality” (subjecthood) was invented in 1917 and 1922, and ceased to exist on January 26, 1991. Today Soviet people might describe those few subject to Soviet mentality, a completely different thing, less recognizable and requiring clearer disambiguation.  —Michael Z. 00:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not ambiguous. There is no ambiguity that these categories are about Soviet people between 1923 and 1991. Place Clichy (talk) 04:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The people here are defined as Soviet, in a manner similar to Category:Yugoslav people. Mellk (talk) 15:52, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Philately of the Czech republic

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge as the only page in here isn't really about the history of stamps. Also if kept, it needs to be renamed to Philately of the Czech Republic Mason (talk) 14:50, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
�Comment: @Marcocapelle: a few article have already been added. ww2censor (talk) 00:22, 24 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:20th-century executions of Vietnamese people

Nominator's rationale: No need to diffuse by century. There are only 4 in this category, and 33 in the parent category Mason (talk) 15:24, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wrongful convictions in fiction

Nominator's rationale: Should this be for wrongful convictions specifically, or miscarriage of justice like the subcategory Category:Films about miscarriage of justice‎? –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 16:29, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - so, you want to rename Category:Video games about wrongful convictions, to Category:Video games about wrongful convictions? (Oinkers42) (talk) 16:36, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, but it could be renamed to Category:Video games about miscarriage of justice if the parent is renamed accordingly. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 16:53, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:46, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

X in fiction XI

Nominator's rationale: Conversion from X in fiction to Fiction about X, as this must be a defining trait. The Indian diaspora one is a category that needs to be checked that all of the works directly included are actually about Indian diaspora; I recently purged many subcategories that were about works by Indian or Indian-diaspora authors. The subcategories of Category:Paranormal romance are in response to a comment at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_December_18#X_in_fiction_II, and have additionally been corrected for proper use of the en dash. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 16:50, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Soviet spies by nationality

Nominator's rationale: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 20#Category:Spies by nationality 寒吉 (talk) 17:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I think that the change would be helpful based on the categories in there. However, this nomination as written is not helpful, nor is the linked discussion closed yet. Mason (talk) 19:50, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:44, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

X in fiction XII

Nominator's rationale: Conversion from X in fiction to Fiction about X, as this must be a defining trait. This batch also contains some redundant layers that need to be merged. For the inheritance and poisoning categories, I am unsure whether to use the singular or plural form in the prepositional phrase. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:18, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, personally "about poisoning" and "about inheritance" sound better to me. (t · c) buidhe 23:32, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:43, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Criminal law video games

Nominator's rationale: Too similar in scope. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:21, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. These seem to be different. Instead of merging, I think that Category:Criminal law video games could be repurposed to Category:Video games about law Mason (talk) 19:47, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Category:Dance in film

Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:14, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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X in fiction XIII

  • Propose renaming:
Nominator's rationale: Conversion from X in fiction to Fiction about X, as this must be a defining trait. This time, I think it's time to scale up. There shouldn't be any surprises in this batch of 45 entries. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:31, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Category:Forms of Hindu deities

Nominator's rationale: WP:OVERCAT. Already part of Hindu deities Cat via individual deity categories. Redtigerxyz Talk 04:58, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 11:55, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Nominator's rationale: This category and its ussage is incredibly vague right now, the vast majority of them are regular names from history which simply increased in popularity due to some popular piece of media or famous person, which does not remotely seem defining to me. Names increase in popularity due to cultural events all the time, its a perfectly normal and expected phenomenon for most names. ★Trekker (talk) 10:18, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment.. I’m not necessarily opposed to renaming the category but I don’t think this is necessarily the right name. There’s already a category called English given names invented by fiction writers. I was going for something that describes names that have greatly increased in usage due to its use for a single real life person or a single influential character. Names influenced by popular culture? Names that rose in usage due to popular culture? If someone can come up with a better name, please suggest one.
Bookworm857158367 (talk) 13:52, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is that I don't find the fact that a name has become more popular due to popular culture to be a defining characteristic, names always fluctuate in usage because of events in culture. A name might become more common in the 1800s because of a once popular novel, but 200 years later it may still be popular but not because of the book anymore. I'm sure the name Victoria became more popular because of Queen Victoria, but that doesn't mean most people who use the name now days mean to name their child after the queen or even think about her. Same with Gary (which you categorized with this category), I doubt the names continued usage is because parents all think of Gary Cooper.★Trekker (talk) 14:14, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:09, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Category:Fictional reptilians

Merge Category:Fictional reptilians to Category:Anthropomorphic reptiles
Nomimator's rationale: The term "reptilian" is rather vaguely defined by this category. It currently seems to consist primarily of articles about humanoid characters that look like reptiles. Therefore it is redundant. AHI-3000 (talk) 03:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I strongly oppose any weird alternative suggestions to merge or delete Category:Anthropomorphic reptiles in any way, this is one of multiple similarly named subcategories of Category:Anthropomorphic animals. AHI-3000 (talk) 16:47, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I have tagged Category:Anthropomorphic reptiles for merging as well.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:14, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Category:Lists of unrealized projects by artist

Nominator's rationale: As far as I can see, they're all films. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:29, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Article title should be left as is, since there are categories within several articles (and in possibly upcoming articles), which not only list a director's unrealized film projects, but also ones unrealized for literature and theater. Example: Quentin Tarantino's unrealized projects#Other projects. Not to mention the countless unrealized television projects that are listed on a majority of the pages in the category. Should those listed projects should be removed from the article just because they're not "films" then? Even from an unbiased standpoint, that seems twisted. I think it's best to leave it broad. An "artists unrealized works", generally speaking. I haven't looked into if there are any articles on the subject of unpublished novels by authors, but if so, I say we add those pages to this category as well. ZanderAlbatraz1145 (talk) 01:31, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:05, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Expatriates in British North America

Nominator's rationale: Expatriates in British North America is not defining, when there are more specific categories.Mason (talk) 03:31, 12 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • "British North America comprised the colonial territories of the British Empire in North America from 1783 onwards," which I don't think is helpful as a distinction for expatriates. They should be placed in a specific colony/terrority. If kept, this category should be containerized as people don't tend to be defined as "British North American". Mason (talk) 01:12, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:44, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • You may be quoting the article, but if so subcategories are being misused for Thirteen Colonies. Split into a "pre-confederation Canada" and "thirteen colonies": look at the content of English emigrants subcat. I have no objection in principle, but how do you propose to keep emigrants to New York from being placed (or misplaced) in the Brit N Am cat? Category names sometimes have to be more precise than articles. Classicvally the categories for Birmingham have to be at "Birmingham, West Midlands", to keep out Birmingham AL. Peterkingiron (talk) 20:06, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 15:00, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:The Rest cricketers

Nominator's rationale: The present title is too vague as there have been several cricket teams called The Rest, including another one in India. The main article for this team is The Rest (Bombay) cricket team so inclusion of (Bombay) in the category title will disambiguate. Batagur baska (talk) 13:39, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Persecution of Christians in Iran

Nominator's rationale: Possibly move to Category:Persecution of Christian converts in Iran. As far as I'm aware, all those who have been persecuted and included in this category are Christian converts from Muslim families. The proposed category change would probably better reflect their situation IMO. GnocchiFan (talk) 12:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Anarchists from Austria-Hungary

Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category. "Austro-Hungarian anarchists" has been the default category for three years, this new category was created seemingly without awareness of the existence of the other. No reason for them to remain separated. Grnrchst (talk) 10:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge but the other way around - i.e. merge "Austro-Hungarian anarchists" to "Anarchists from Austria-Hungary" - since the parent category is Category:People from Austria-Hungary. It is likely also why the creator was not aware of its existance since all the category names are formatted the same way except for "Austro-Hungarian anarchists". Omnis Scientia (talk) 12:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:British Ceylon period

Nominator's rationale: Manual merge because WP:OVERLAPCAT. Although there is a contested merger proposal for the article British Ceylon period, there is no justification for separate categories. The target already holds directly the chronology categories for the British period 1815–1948, and could take the other's place in Category:History of Sri Lanka by period. – Fayenatic London 15:33, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

History of Ceylon by period

Nominator's rationale: Merge and redirect, deleting parents that will become empty. This hierarchy is WP:SHAREDNAME, a subset of Sri Lanka's history covering British Ceylon 1815–1948 and the independent Dominion of Ceylon 1948–1972. When the categories were created, they were required by the chronology templates, but now those templates will resolve redirects at such category names. – Fayenatic London 10:29, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Red cattle

Nominator's rationale: delete, trivial characteristic. Besides based on the pictures I'd say some are brown, so it is subjective too. Marcocapelle (talk) 10:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Er, no, nonsense. Coat colour is a defining characteristic in cattle breeds, exactly as it is not in (most) horse breeds. Major works of reference such as this and this classify cattle breeds into groups based on coat colour, as did the now-defunct breed website of the University of Veterinary Medicine Hannover and as do others who actually know what they're talking about – see for example this Scholar search. Oh, and 'brown' cattle look like this. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Terms in science and technology

Nominator's rationale: disperse in the tree of Category:Science and technology, "term" is a meaningless attribute. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Anti-Israeli sentiment

Nominator's rationale We already have a category for opposition to Israel, which is the anti-Zionism category. This new anti-Israeli sentiment category is superfluous. What is the difference exactly between anti-Zionist and anti-Israel sentiment? Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 18:20, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom AHI-3000 (talk) 01:20, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
-Zionism: a Jewish-only idea for a Jewish state that only talks about Jews in the geographical Jewish homeland. Rejection of this Jewish-only idea: Anti-Zionist.
-Israel: A multidiverse country in today's world, which primarily has nothing to do with religion, where people of different origins live together side by side. It guarantees freedom for everyone.
When you say: "I am against Zionists and Zionism", you are for example not addressing the Christians, Muslims and atheists who are Israeli citizens. When you advocate the destruction of all of Israel and its society, you don’t mention the religious element and therefore also address every Israeli citizen including the Muslims, Christians, Atheists and anyone who is not a Jew or who does not identify as a Zionist. Rejection Israel as what it is today and all of its society: Anti-Israeli sentiment. You couldn’t include Adolf Hitler into this for example. Another example is the BDS-movement, which definitely turns against Israel, but I wouldn’t call it an Anti-Zionist organisation. Furthermore (Anti-)Zionism is way older than the country of Israel as we know it today.

The topic is complicated, but there are differences. A subcat of Anti-Zionism would probably be the best solution. FPSalman (talk) 21:11, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. Critisizing Israel and/or even being against its actions (aka anti-Isreal sentiment) is not the same as being anti-Zionist. You can fully support the idea that Jewish people deserve to have a country, and fully belive that Isreal in its current form is not a good country. As such, those to topics, while connected, are not the same. Isreal is a country that exists since 1948. Zionist movement existed for centuries.Artemis Andromeda (talk) 18:00, 14 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Criticizing Israel and its policies is not "anti-Israeli". Israelis criticize their own government on a daily basis. Wanting a different administration in power is also not "anti-Israeli", nor is it "anti-Israeli" to want the Israeli government reformed. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 13:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Zionism is not a Jewish-only idea. The majority of American Zionists are Christians. There are also many Hindu Zionists in India. Those are two examples of the many non-Jewish Zionists worldwide. Many of the "Christians, Muslims and atheists" in Israel are Arabs/Palestinians and many are anti-Zionists. The idea that people who oppose the existence of the State of Israel have some kind of animosity against the Arab/Palestinian citizens of Israel is...an interesting idea, but one I've never heard before. Israel defines itself as the Jewish state; opposition to the Jewish state (anti-Zionism) is opposition to Israel. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What are your sources for all of that? How do you know that “many” of the Arabs in Israel are Anti-Zionist? How comes that so many Arabs are in the Israeli army then? How do you actually define an “Arab” in the first place? Is a person who looks “Arab” and whose both parents are Jews from Morocco not “Arab”?
"Israel defines itself as the Jewish state; …" Source?
"The idea that people who oppose the existence of the State of Israel have some kind of animosity against the Arab/Palestinian citizens of Israel…" What are you talking about?
The massive problem with you Bohemian Baltimore is that you reject Israel’s right to exist. I don’t know how valuable your statements are.FPSalman (talk) 19:52, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 12:51, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - anti-Israel sentiment and anti-Zionism are two seperate things. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:42, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is an additional new layer of the proposal: to purge biographies from the category.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 07:03, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Tribes of Lebanon

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only one tribe in here, which isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 06:40, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Events by definitions

Nominator's rationale: Not defining Mason (talk) 06:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional criminals by occupation

Nominator's rationale: These seem to be the same. * Pppery * it has begun... 04:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Human–animal hybrids

Nominator's rationale: Redundant to Category:Human hybrids - what could humans hybridize with that isn't an animal? All of the content here is better categorized elsewhere (usually in Category:Lists of fictional humanoid species) so there's no need to merge. * Pppery * it has begun... 04:39, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional members of endangered species

Nominator's rationale: Not defining. * Pppery * it has begun... 04:24, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, how is this "non-defining"? This is such a weak argument. AHI-3000 (talk) 04:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Cuban sculptors by century

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only one category in here for each category. This unhelpful for navigation Mason (talk) 03:58, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Palestinian philosophers by century

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only one category in here for each category which is unhelpful for navigation. Mason (talk) 03:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Anthropomorphic carnivorans

Nominator's rationale: Same deal, different category. Using such a specifically scientific term for fictional characters is random and unnecessary. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:16, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. No need to diffuse by scientific terms. Mason (talk) 03:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Kyrgyzstani men by occupation

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There are no other categories in the parent, which is unhelpful for navigation Mason (talk) 02:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Mandatory Palestine expatriates in Italian East Africa

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There is only one person in this category. Probably because Italian East Africa existed for less than 4 years. Mason (talk) 02:34, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ghattas family

Nominator's rationale: Only two people in this family. It is unclear if they are even related, as neither links to the other. Mason (talk) 02:30, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Shia Islam in Central America

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's no need to isolate this one page from the rest of north america Mason (talk) 01:57, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wikipedia categories named after alcoholic drink companies

Nominator's rationale: Perfectly overlapping categories Mason (talk) 00:28, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Cattle breeds by colour

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. Only one category in here, which isn't helpful for navigation Mason (talk) 00:23, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]


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